choils

I've seen knives with no choil, with little choils and with huge choils. I've seen choils of various different shapes- semi circular, triangular and then there's the fancy Spanish variety.

To keep it straight, I see the choil as being the transition space between the edge and the ricasso.

What does a choil do, and how do you decide whether to make a knife using one or not? How do you decide the shape and type?

Do knife makers settle on one standard type, more or less, and is it an identification of his/her work, or is the decision random? Just do what feels right for any given design?

I've started making two knives, both of which have choils, and the third that is still being constructed in my head also has choils. And I don't know why I decided to have them, I just did. I want to understand where my decision came from.

Was mine a practical decision, or a stylistic one? Are most choils practical, or stylistic?

I've wondered about this like forever.

[StephanFowler]

for me it's essential geometry, sorta

If I want to make a 9" Bowie knife with a 1/4" thick stock and a flat grind I need to get the correct angle from one face of the bevel to the other.

I want the ricasso to match the width of my handle at the guard (flowing lines) which makes my ricasso at most 1.25" wide

if I don't make my blade wider than my ricasso I will have a 15 degree angle from bevel to bevel, however, if I make my blade 1.75" wide I now have a 9 degree angle from bevel to bevel. making a better cutting blade.

but now my blade is wider than my ricasso, somehow I need to mate the two together and have a good looking blade. thus the choil.

[Jon Brand]

I've wondered the same thing about choils. On a folding knife, I hate them. To my eye, the knife looks cheaper with a little choil and I know it can be tougher to sharpen a blade with out one. Cliff Parker makes very fine folders and I was thrilled a few years ago when he stopped with the choils. It makes the blade just flow right into the handle better in my eyes. I know that slipjoints and some other knives have them because it is the style thats been done for generations.

Stephan, I'm a little embarrassed to say that I needed to read your post a few times to get it straight, but I totally pick up what you're putting down now.

Do you figure you have a 'signature' sort of shape to the choil, Stephan, or a favourite way to do it? Is there a rationale behind the choice, or is it a looks good type of thing?

I see what you mean about a large knife with a wide blade necessarily having to transition to a narrower ricasso, but what about blades where the edges are in line somewhat with the handle? Like a hunter or a fighter type thing.

Going through David's books, I noticed that a lot of knives in the smaller sizes, blade-width wise, don't seem to have a choil. Loveless first comes to mind.

All things being equal, say you have two identical, tight tolerance, beautiful knives, and one has a choil and the other does not. Which would you, as a maker, choose? Why would you choose one over the other?

Not that the following two knives are identical;





but I wouldn't kick either of them outta bed for eating crackers

I'm really looking for nuts and bolts stuff here. I don't want this to become all about collector's opinions, (no offense to those who've already contributed their ideas on the subject) but more about the gritty decisions that are made around the grinder, and how those decisions come about.

[Kevin Jones]

I'm not sure that "choil" or "no choil" is necessarily a decision that's usually considered when designing a knife but more often the result of the design decision to make the blade wider than the ricasso. Generally fighters, daggers and hunters where the blade/ricasso/handle are the same or very near the same width generally don't have choils by default.

Now a design decision is made in choosing how to treat/shape a choil or wider blade than ricasso transition. Choils can serve a worthy purpose such as a finger groove or to aid in blade sharpening when designed for such.

When commissioning a knife, I have often been asked by the maker or have specified how I want the choil shaped/made.

[StephanFowler]

Originally Posted by Kevin Jones

I'm not sure that "choil" or "no choil" is necessarily a decision that's usually considered when designing a knife but more often the result of the design decision to make the blade wider than the ricasso. Generally fighters, daggers and hunters where the blade/ricasso/handle are the same or very near the same width generally don't have choils by default.

Now a design decision is made in choosing how to treat/shape a choil or wider blade than ricasso transition. Choils can serve a worthy purpose such as a finger groove or to aid in blade sharpening when designed for such.

When commissioning a knife, I have often been asked by the maker or have specified how I want the choil shaped/made.

Thanks Kevin, that explains my point much better than I did.



Lorien, I think you are referring to the small sharpening notch that has become popular with a lot of folding knives.

if the blade edge is in line with the ricasso I would almost always go with a NON notched blade


IMHO it's usually an unnecessary design element, when it's done for historical accuracy it doesn't bother me as much, but I'd still rather not have it

[StephanFowler]

Originally Posted by Lorien Arnold

Stephan, I'm a little embarrassed to say that I needed to read your post a few times to get it straight, but I totally pick up what you're putting down now.

Do you figure you have a 'signature' sort of shape to the choil, Stephan, or a favourite way to do it? Is there a rationale behind the choice, or is it a looks good type of thing?

Early in my forging days my choil shape was mostly defined by grinding away until my horrible hammer marks were gone.

nowadays I can pretty well hammer it to about the shape I want, but I still tend to favor a gentle radius towards the cutting edge.

I "try" to avoid as mane straight lines in my knives possible

Ed Fowler refers to this part of the knife as 'recessed ricasso' I assume on bigger knives.
I'm also hearing it referred to as a 'sharpening notch'.
This is just getting more confusing all the time.

[Jerry Manuel]

For me, its strickly for the look of the design . On my Hawthorne Bowie, it just wouldn't look right without a choil, IMO . On the other hand a choil on my Loveless would ruin the design -

it would be really great to hear some more knife makers' thoughts on choils/sharpening notches/recessed ricassos and the like.

I know some of you knifemaking guys are members here, so please share your wisdom