The Integral Knife- Exactly, What is it?

[Kevin Jones]

I‘ve always gone along with my friend Edmund Davidson’s definition of an Integral Knife, considering him a or perhaps even the pioneer of the modern integral knife.
As there’s varying opinions lately as to what defines an integral knife, I thought this an interesting subject for discussion.
What’s your opinion as to what constitutes an Integral Knife? Please feel free to posts photo examples of such.

Edmond Davidson:
"This process is different from the techniques used to construct
any other type of fixed-blade knife. Here, the knifemaker is dealing
with a bar of steel that is the whole knife during the entire process
of working on it, from start to finish.  Except for the  handle inlays, it is
all one piece of steel".

From the David Darom Book “Edmund Davidson The Art of the Integral Knife” Edited to add; Absolutely gorgeous engraving is by Jere Davidson.



As always, thank you in advance for your views and opinions.

[Bob Betzner]

I've never quite been confortable with any knife whose parts are forged-welded together being called integral. For me, "integral" fits the definition in the above quote from Darom's book.

Actually, a recent thread on Blade Forums, showing a work in progress, happened to cause me to give this subject much greater thought. I went away more convinced than ever that what I was seeing in the WIP (a bunch of pieces about to be forge welded) was certainly not what I thought of as an integral piece.

Bob

ps: This is a really good topic, Kevin.

[Kenneth Springer]

I know what prompted this thread.

I agree with Bob.

BTW, that is a beautiful knife you posted there.

[Kevin Jones]

Edmond's definition is pretty much black & white, however there's some gray areas surrounding this subject.

Weld on guards, integral or not?
Though IMO it's an excellent construction method if executed well (and the several knifemakers who I know that are forge welding guards are doing it extremely well), I'm not so sure the resulting knife is a true integral.
Your thoughts?

Damascus, is it possible to make a true damascus integral knife?
One school of thought is that it's not possible as the source damascus billet is made up of welding steels together, therefore one's not starting with a single piece of steel.
On the other hand, aren't source steels in general made up of combined elements to some degree?
Your thoughts?

Knifemakers, your opinions?

[Bob Betzner]

I think anyone who considers a welded guard as "integral" is mis-representing what "integral" has traditionally meant, at least in the past.

IMHO, no matter how lengthy the explanation or how extensive the vocabulary one might use to try and explain, a welded guard is just that - a welded guard. Trying to re-define it as truly integral kinda insults those who are "pinnacle" custom integral makers. Seems to me it would simply be more appropriate to call it what it is - forge welded. Perhaps even "forge-welded integral", but certainly not "integral".

Then, of course, one gets into the "full integral" or "half-integral" discussion, too.

[Jon Brand]

I don't believe a welded guard is a true integral. Infact it kind of bothers me.. I was pretty let down when I found out that an amazing damascus maker does that regularly. I'd like to see a piece of damascus look just as good when its a full integral.

[Kenneth Springer]

Originally Posted by Kevin Jones

Knifemakers, your opinions?

Yes, I want to hear what knifemakers think about this.